His book on the historicity of jesus was published by an academic press. At our postflaviana website, we do not mind returning the favor. When you talk about a logically sound book on the historicity of jesus. The historical argument for jesus of nazareth by bart ehrman bart ehrman and the quest for the historical jesus of nazareth. A longtime contributor to selfpublished philosophical web sites, including the secular web and freethought blogs, carrier has published a number of books and articles on philosophy and religion in classical antiquity, discussing the. Bart ehrman and the quest of the historical jesus of nazareth is a compilation of essays by many proponents of historical minimalism or mythicism as ehrman defines it. In their book the jesus mysteries, timothy freke and peter gandy list twentyseven ancient authors who lived within a hundred years of jesus.
Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. He uses bayesian logic to claim that since religious figures with characteristics similar to jesus did not exist, then probably neither did jesus. The book seems to be a summation and exposition of the debate so far. On carriers prechristian jesus myth richard carrier is a freelance historian with a phd in ancient history from columbia university. The 2012 blog post by ehrman contained a fuller reply to richard carrier by way of a reply to some of richard carrier s criticisms of bart ehrmans 2012 book did jesus exist. Now a new book by raphael lataster and richard carrier has come out, jesus did not exist.
But there is a second, equally interesting question. Carrier is a proponent of the idea that jesus never existed as a historical figure in any meaningful way. Challenging the existence of an historical jesus, a work by earl doherty canadian humanist publications. Carriers conclusion is that the following words are likely to be a christian interp. This does not address anything on dohertys website. People have been denying the jesusoffaith for ages, so thats nothing new. Mp3 audio on february 11, 2010, michael licona and richard carrier faced each other in debate for a second time. But i did like carriers kick the book across the room, after bart pointed out how jesus must have existed because marks gospel translated a line from psalm 22 into aramaic. In my book did jesus exist i speak of him as a smart scholar with bona fide credentials. Carrier reexamines the whole question and finds compelling reasons to suspect the more daring assumption is correct. In the book, written to counter the idea that there was never such a person as jesus of nazareth at all, ehrman sets out to demonstrate the historical evidence for jesus existence, and he aims to state why all experts in the area agree that whatever else you may. You can look at its description on amazon and see inside the book for more. This task is complicated because, in his response to my original piece, carrier says a surprisingly small amount that engages my argument and a large amount that does not. I am taking it slowly and so far have not even completed the first chapter.
We might turn up proof that jesus did or didnt exist, if we had better documentation of the 1st century, especially of early christian communities and beliefs, but we dont, a fate that leaves many an historian in an inescapable position of relative ignorance. On the historicity of jesus ohj is an exhaustive analysis of all extant evidence concerning the biblical jesus, ultimately offering sound reasons for doubt of jesus historicity. I have been approaching the relationship of jesus and paul from only one angle, to this point viz. The historical argument for jesus of nazareth is a 2012 book by bart d. A response to richard carrier s on the historicity of jesus. Bayess theorem and the quest for the historical jesus 2012. This did not go unnoticed by his fans, who repeatedly asked him why he had not replied to my criticisms. On carriers prechristian jesus myth boxing pythagoras. Features three chapters by richard carrier, on how its origins prove christianity false, how the fine tuning argument proves god doesnt exist, and how moral truth can be discovered by science. How much did paul actually know about the historical jesus.
Features two chapters by richard carrier, on the dark ages and christian responsibility for them, and on the pagan. This task is complicated because, in his response to my original piece, carrier says a surprisingly small amount that engages my argument and a large amount that does not approximately half of his piece is devoted to other matters. What are the most important criticisms of richard carrier. Jesus, he certainly did exist that jesus existed is held by virtually every expert on the planet jesus did exist but he did exist there was a jesus of nazareth he really existed he certainly lived and so on. Carrier has convinced me that we should not have firm beliefs about the existence of jesus and it would be entirely unsurprising if jesus didnt actually exist. Misunderstandings of historical method are rife in francis beckwiths chapter in the book in defense of miracles, and these are typical of all modern apologetics. The historical argument for jesus of nazareth, in which he decried, and arguably slandered, those who doubt. Carrier and james the brother of jesus i hope i am not beating a dead horse by going at some length into this discussion of james, the brother of jesus, in response to the mythicists, who have a very real stake indeed in saying that he wasnt really jesus brother, since that would mean jesus existed. I doubt carrier had anything to do with this, however, because authors rarely have control over the title. Feb 02, 2016 even richard carrier appears to believe or to grant for the sake of argument that christianity existed in the first century c.
Earl doherty and the argument to ahistoricity 2002 richard carrier. Sure jesus might have existed, but from the lack of evidence and the strong evidence for mythicism, it looks more likely that jesus did not exist. As many readers know, richard carrier has written a hardhitting, one might even say vicious, response to did jesus exist. We must ask ourselves, if jesus did not exist, where did all of this jesus tradition come from. What is the general opinion of richard carriers celestial. Ellison a real history of abrahamic religion, 14 nov 2006. Richard carrier is one of the new breed of mythicists. A longtime contributor to philosophical web sites, including the secular web and freethought blogs, carrier has published a number of books and articles on philosophy. His numerous books include deconstructing jesus, the incredible shrinking son of man, the. That said, im much less confident than carrier that we should form the positive belief that jesus did not exist rather than just suspending judgment. Richard carrier opens this debate by defending the proposition that the apostle paul, our earliest source for original christian beliefs, believed that god supplied jesus as he will supply us with a new body at his resurrection, rather than raising up the body that was buried contrary to the evolved versions of christianity we find today. As one site puts it, we simply do not have a shred of evidence to determine the historicity of a jesus the christ. A debate among atheists, scholar raphael lataster assesses the arguments for and against the proposition that jesus did not exist.
In his book, carrier claims to establish that the odds that historical jesus existed, are. Historicity of jesus order books on christianity now. As it is, we must entertain the plausible possibility that jesus didnt exist. I am finding raphael lataters book, jesus did not exist. The assumption that jesus existed as a historical person has occasionally been questioned in the course of the last hundred years or so, but any doubts that have been raised have usually been put to rest in favor of imagining a blend of the historical, the mythical and the theological in the surviving records of jesus. Carrier and james the brother of jesus the bart ehrman blog. I would like to provide responses to the arguments and evidence that richard carrier offers to rebut my argument that jesus existed. Bayes theorem and the quest for the historical jesus highly recommended to truly understand the pain staking process that richard carrier employed in order to give as most accurate as possible probability to the existence of an historical jesus. Richard carrier phd columbia in ancient history lives in the san francisco area. Another model hero narrative, which pagans also revered and to which the gospel jesus also conforms, is the apotheosis, or ascension to godhood tale, and of these the one to which the gospels and acts most conform is that of the roman national hero romulus.
Carrier s on the historicity of jesus made him the leading proponent of the christmyth theory. Carrier discusses the similarities between the apotheosis tales of romulus and the godboy. Why i dont buy the resurrection story by richard carrier refuted. Anyone who reads this blog knows i am a big fan of bart ehrman. Jun 01, 2014 on the historicity of jesus ohj is an exhaustive analysis of all extant evidence concerning the biblical jesus, ultimately offering sound reasons for doubt of jesus historicity. Next, richard offered a post titled defending mythicism. I thought you might be referring to carrier s book while i was referring the ehrmans book given the 2014 date you cited. Carrier has written on the historicity of jesus, proposing an origin of christianity without a historical jesus. He is well known for his writings on internet infidels, otherwise known as the secular web, where he served as editor in chief for several years. For anyone intent on defending a historical jesus, this is the book to challenge.
Jun 03, 2014 when you talk about a logically sound book on the historicity of jesus. Richard carrier is displeased, again history for atheists. Dje has no prospect of displacing my own edited volume, shattering the christ myth stcm, as the most thorough volume on the subject of the existence of jesus. Carrier concludes that with the bayesian method of reasoning, the probabilities of a historical jesus is being generous. The other mention of jesus in josephus, antiquities xx.
He states no less than 7 times in the opening chapter that jesus 100% did exist, and then again about once every five minutes for good measure. Applying a bayesian criterion propounded in his foundational book proving history, carrier methodically breaks down contemporary historiographical assumptions, and. On the historicity of jesus audiobook by richard carrier. So a reasonable person would use a more flat prior, such as 5050. The jesus myth is groundless speculation contrary to all evidence, and totally without basis. Daniel gullotta has published a paper titled on richard carrier s doubts. Four conclusive reasons to reject the faith by richard carrier did jesus exist. For those who follow the jesusmyth movement of late you know that it has become quite popular to deny that there was any historical jesus. This book reflects an extraordinary example of historical scholarship and provides us with the best, by far, theory of jesus mythicism ever written. Its a good overview of the modern published in 20th21st century works that are available on the subject. A 33% chance is granted, generously, that this thesis is valid. What is bart ehrmans argument against richard carrier and.
Richard carrier is the worlds foremost proponent of the mythicist view of jesus that he never actually existed as a historical person. In short, bart ehrman thinks they ignore good historical evidence because they wanted better historical evidence i. On tuesday, catholic writer jimmy akin responded with his piece, jesus did exist. A defense of metaphysical naturalism, and why i am not a christian. Ehrman vigorously defends the historical jesus, identifies the most historically reliable sources for best understanding jesus mission and message, and offers a compelling portrait of the person at the heart of the christian tradition. Mythicists claim that if a man like jesus existed and performed miracles, there would be more written about him near the time of his death. May 22, 20 if carrier does not even know this, then of what value are his other pronunciations. Fuller reply to richard carrier the bart ehrman blog. This is what magicians do before they perform their magic tricks.
What other book might you compare on the historicity of jesus to and why. A debate among atheists, a most invigorating and fresh approach to the topic. The whole point is that everyone uses his or her personal prior, and what you get out is a posterior. If a person is already 100% convinced that jesus existed or did not exist, then nothing will change their mind. He is trained in ancient history and classics, with a phd from columbia university an impressive credential. It was constructed in order to refute and point out errors in ehrmans book did jesus exist. In it josephus recounts a major political event that. I do, of course, heartily disagree with him on issues relating to the historical jesus. Yet, carrier notes that so many extrabiblical sources fail to mention christianity.
Richard carrier on his mythicist theory a tippling philosopher. Coincidentally, the same three books also argue that jesus did not exist. Carrier seems to expect did jesus exist to be a work of scholarship written for scholars in the academy and with extensive engagement with scholarship, rather than what it is, a popular book written for a broad audience. Aai discusses this question and more with ancient historian and jesus mythicist richard carrier. Popular atheist writer richard carrier began monday with an article titled questioning the historicity of jesus. A debate among atheists 1 by raphael lataster, richard carrier isbn.
I said nothing nasty about carrier in my book just the contrary, i indicated that he was a smart fellow with whom i disagree on fundamental issues, including some for which he really does not seem to know what he is talking about. Strangely, the normally hairtriggered carrier has been slow to respond to my analysis. The pursuit of truth on october 21st in milwaukee, wisconsin, leading new testament scholar, bart ehrman, will be debating robert m. Its april fools today, and i have an april fool for you his name is richard carrier. He lays out extensive research on the evidence for jesus and the origins of christianity and poses the key questions that must now be answered if the historicity of jesus is to survive as a dominant paradigm.
Did jesus exist the historical argument for jesus of. Carrier proposes that there existed a sect which worshiped an angel named jesus about whom in the late 1st century ce stories were invented which placed him earlier in the. Bart ehrman and the quest of the historical jesus of. Both are well versed in the literature and make pretty cogent arguments. He does a good job of analyzing some mythicist claims and explaining why jesus almost surely did exist. Its not certain, we dont have the documentation to make a 100% assertion for or against. But now that he has finally done so, we can see the. Two years ago i wrote a detailed critique of richard carrier s argument that josephus does not refer to jesus of nazareth in antiquities xx. The people living in jesuss own time didnt write about him, didnt even know he existed, quite probably because he didnt exist. I highly recommend this to all who seek the truth about jesus. Bart ehrman and the quest of the historical jesus of nazareth. Richard cevantis carrier born december 1, 1969 is an american author and activist, whose work focuses on empiricism, atheism, and the historicity of jesus. Ehrman made quite a splash back in 2012 when he published did jesus exist. This book is addressed to those who think that jesus did not exist, especially the mythicists who claim that jesus christ came from jewish and pagan myths, and therefore, he was not historical.
Yet disproving the existence of jesus is only carrier s first argument. Richard cevantis carrier is an american historian, published philosopher, and prominent defender of the american freethought movement. He is arguably the most prominent proponent of the christ myth hypothesis, today, and one of the few historical scholars with actual qualifications in history that holds to such a position. Carrier didnt mention bart ehrmans strange claim that zeus was the father of zeus. Proving history, on the failure of methodology in the study of jesus and how to fix it. In fact it shows, at best, a strong probability of 3 to 1 at best that jesus did not exist. Features a chapter by richard carrier analyzing why christian apologist craig blomberg did not prevail against the arguments of atheist carl stecher in defending the credibility of the resurrection of jesus, in this most uptodate installment of debate. But are there any reasons to think jesus did not exist. Why we might have reason for doubt by carrier, richard isbn. If you want to find the real historical jesus the person, not the demigod the complete evidence for this is contained in the books king jesus and jesus, king of edessa. Four conclusive reasons to reject the faith, and more on. Mark goodacre richard carrier is the worlds foremost proponent of the mythicist view of jesus that he never actually existed as a historical person. One of the ideas that persist today is the jesus myth the idea that jesus did not even exist. I have read richard carrier s introductory remarks and raphael latasters own background introduction and am only about half way through the first chapter.